Woman killed with tire iron for being Iraqi in America

[Black]

decay wrote:
When Christians are killed for their beliefs in countries that are mostly Muslim or anti-Christian, there's a hue and cry about it.

Not so much when, in the USA, the country touted as having FREEDOM OF RELIGION, you are murdered for your beliefs.

DK, I'm sure we all think this is horrible. Some of think we should wait for more details to emerge. I'm not sure what it is you want.

[rjmacs]

Chakravartin wrote:
[quote=Dennis S]
I used to think calling crimes "hate crimes" was superfluous, but not anymore.

Beating someone to death with a tire iron is more wrong when someone does so because s/he's a bigot vs. just generally hateful?
Once you approach the asymptote for the function Wrong(x), it's not worth comparing acts against one another as acts in themselves.

However, if you examine the act not in isolation, but in a discursive context, the harm done in a generalized context by a hate crime is greater than that done by an act of individual hatred or rage. Both result in horrendous suffering and huge local damage. But only one reinforces a broader 'story' that it's acceptable to target certain people because of their color, religion, sex, etc. There isn't a generalized, circulating discourse that says it's acceptable to beat someone to death in a bar fight, or shoot someone in an act of road rage. There ARE discourses that say it's okay to kill someone for being an outsider, a foreigner, a Muslim, a Jew, a queer, a whore, etc.

If you believe that acts and events should only be judged locally and on an individual, isolated basis (Chak, i think you fit this description, because it's about individual accountability), then looking at the discursive consequences is immaterial. For those of us who think the collective is also worth considering, including the broader stories in operation does matter. I see the merits of both sides, but i land on the broader end of the spectrum.

[$tevie]

People look at hate crime laws *ss backwards.

The idea is not that after you have bludgeoned someone to death because you hate them, the cruel cold arm of political correctness makes your sentence worse than it would have been.

The idea is that when you are contemplating bludgeoning someone to death because you hate them, that you are forced to ask yourself "is this going to be gratifying enough to justify the fact that I am going to have years and years piled onto my sentence because my motive was hate?

What's funny is that it's often the exact same people who claim that strict law and order is a deterrent who are the ones that piss and moan about hate crime laws.

[Chakravartin]

$tevie wrote:
The idea is that when you are contemplating bludgeoning someone to death because you hate them, that you are forced to ask yourself "is this going to be gratifying enough to justify the fact that I am going to have years and years piled onto my sentence because my motive was hate?

I have yet to see an authoritative study conclude that increased penalties deter violent crimes of any classification.

Rather, people who study the issue find that there is no deterrence at all, unless you count the dearth of repeat-offenses when the offender is languishing behind bars.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/t...minal.html

[$tevie]

And yet the only time people drag out this sort of information is when discussing hate crimes. I get the impression that people just don't want to admit that hate crimes ever happen. They like to think it's a myth.

[Chakravartin]

$tevie wrote:
And yet the only time people drag out this sort of information is when discussing hate crimes. I get the impression that people just don't want to admit that hate crimes ever happen. They like to think it's a myth.

I can only speak for myself, but I think just about every violent crime could be considered a hate crime. You can always identify the victim as the member of a suspect-class if you look for it.

[Black]

Chakravartin wrote:
[quote=$tevie]
The idea is that when you are contemplating bludgeoning someone to death because you hate them, that you are forced to ask yourself "is this going to be gratifying enough to justify the fact that I am going to have years and years piled onto my sentence because my motive was hate?

I have yet to see an authoritative study conclude that increased penalties deter violent crimes of any classification.

Rather, people who study the issue find that there is no deterrence at all, unless you count the dearth of repeat-offenses when the offender is languishing behind bars.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/t...minal.html I'm starting to get the feeling you're bitter and angry that you don't belong to a hated minority group. I know it's little comfort, but it's not all it's cracked up to be.

[Chakravartin]

Black wrote:
[quote=Chakravartin]
[quote=$tevie]
The idea is that when you are contemplating bludgeoning someone to death because you hate them, that you are forced to ask yourself "is this going to be gratifying enough to justify the fact that I am going to have years and years piled onto my sentence because my motive was hate?

I have yet to see an authoritative study conclude that increased penalties deter violent crimes of any classification.

Rather, people who study the issue find that there is no deterrence at all, unless you count the dearth of repeat-offenses when the offender is languishing behind bars.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/t...minal.html I'm starting to get the feeling you're bitter and angry that you don't belong to a hated minority group. I know it's little comfort, but it's not all it's cracked up to be.
I'm a member of 3 commonly hated minority groups.

'Not gonna tell you which ones. Have fun guessing.

[Black]

Chakravartin wrote:
[quote=Black]
[quote=Chakravartin]
[quote=$tevie]
The idea is that when you are contemplating bludgeoning someone to death because you hate them, that you are forced to ask yourself "is this going to be gratifying enough to justify the fact that I am going to have years and years piled onto my sentence because my motive was hate?

I have yet to see an authoritative study conclude that increased penalties deter violent crimes of any classification.

Rather, people who study the issue find that there is no deterrence at all, unless you count the dearth of repeat-offenses when the offender is languishing behind bars.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/t...minal.html I'm starting to get the feeling you're bitter and angry that you don't belong to a hated minority group. I know it's little comfort, but it's not all it's cracked up to be.
I'm a member of 3 commonly hated minority groups.

'Not gonna tell you which ones. Have fun guessing.
Athiest, Jew, 1%.

[haikuman]

Wow how unusual . . . paranoid white people demeaning, disparaging and killing native americans . . .
I mean Iraqis . . . not much has changed . . . . ymmv