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Columbus Cop Shoots/Kills 16-Yr-Old Black Girl Who Had A Knife
#11
Couldn't have shot her in the leg, fired in the air first, anything but fatal shots?


WE weren't there, so we don't KNOW what actually happened.

But NO to 'shooting in the leg'.

A bullet hits the femoral artery and the suspect dies, the cop is culpable for wrongful death.

Yes, there will be idiots on parade to say nothing will happen to the cop, but that's doesn't happen as often as you want to believe.

A shot misses and somebody is stabbed or there's a ricochet or and somebody else is person is injured injured or killed.

A warning shot?

No, for the same reasons above.



Aim center mass & shoot to kill stop. Otherwise, don't shoot.


Fixed that for you.

'Shoot to kill' is an internet forum trope.

The job is to stop the unlawful use of deadly force.

There is no Judge Dredd taught in police academies, regardless of how much the ignorant and uninitiated want to believe it.



My point was that once the decision is made to shoot, it is shoot to kill.


Still wrong.

If the use of deadly force is appropriate, then it's shoot center mass, and stop the suspect.

Of course there's a risk of the suspect dying, that's why it's called deadly force.

If a cop fails to use his firearm against an armed suspect, an a innocent bystander is injured or killed, he had fail in his duty, and is culpable.

And even if for some reason he wasn't, as in he was following forum wisdom and was waiting to be shot at before drawing his weapon, he's still be sued for wrongful death by the survivor.



but a recent incident resulted in an officer shooting someone... in the leg. TWICE. AFTER he was fired upon.


That cop is either a very bad shot or stupid, but maybe that's typical of Mayberry, RFDPD.

He's lucky the crook wasn't a better shot, and not studly enough to get off more shots that might have killed him or an innocent bystander.

Oh yes, deliberately shoot a suspect in the leg at the suspect fires one or more shots as he falls, and someone else is injured or killed, he and his department are culpable.

And an innocent person is injured ir killed.


that does not mean that jumping in with no thought or assessment is best.


You know that's what happened?

Did you see the video, how 'bout a link.

Columbus Police showed the video a second time in slow motion during Tuesday night's news conference. Woods said the video shows Bryant holding a knife as she pushes two girls. He said police believe she is attempting to stab both girls during the fight...

Body camera footage shows an officer getting out of his patrol car as he responds to a commotion on the driveway of a home.

As he approaches a group of people standing and shouting on the driveway, he asks, "What's going on?" Seconds later Bryant and another girl begin fighting in front of the officer.

Bryant can be seen pushing the girl to the ground. She then approaches a second girl and throws her against a car parked on the driveway. The officer shouts "Get down!" three times, pulls out his gun and shoots in Bryant's direction at least four times and she falls to the ground.

As the officer approaches her, a knife can be seen close to her.

One man standing off to the side on the driveway shouts to the officer, "She's just a kid!"



Yeah, she's just a kid with a knife, what possible harm could she be to anybody.

If that's the case, why were police even called?

How come nobody there intervened, especially Mr. She's Just a Kid.

So are you saying the cop should have deliberated and waited for a definite crime to have occurred, before as you say 'jumping in with no thought or assessment'?

How about waiting for more information before jumping in with no thought or assessment.



Current Occupying Force Police training is 'shoot to kill if you FEEL threatened'.


That's just plain bullsh¡t on so many levels.

I love Val Demings.
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#12
I have some questions:

• Who called the cops?
• Was she fighting off the other people?
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#13
Dennis S wrote:
I have some questions:

• Who called the cops?
• Was she fighting off the other people?

Too early for me to make even much of a preliminary assessment of what happened. A lot of questions.
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#14
CW2V wrote:
[quote=Lemon Drop]
[quote=CW2V]
...On June 10, 1983, Buck arrived at the house Tracey was staying at and demanded to see her. Tracey remained inside and contacted the police. Fifteen minutes later, with no officer in sight, Tracey exited the h....

CW2V

I am not certain what point you hope to make, but the tragic story you shared is typical of how police handled domestic violence against women and children until fairly recently. Tracey was lucky the officer came over at all.

While in this case the officer was obviously completely ineffective, that does not mean that jumping in with no thought or assessment is best. Police need to slow down and de-escalate situations. Too frequently THEY are the ones who introduce violence and urgency into situations, with sometimes tragic results.
The point was that the officer saw the young woman with a knife attacking another. It only takes a second for a knife to end a life in the right spot. The officer had a spit second to make a decision. He was not in danger. Another was. If he "Shot for the legs or in the air" a knife in the neck could've been the next thing to happen. Then what? There's too much gray here.

CW2V
Now you're talking about this current case and the story in your earlier post is from 1983. So that's what I was commenting on.
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#15
Dennis S wrote:
I have some questions:

• Who called the cops?
• Was she fighting off the other people?

It'll be interesting to learn that, and also why a young man or teen is also seen kicking one of the girls the moment she drops to the ground as if he was making a field goal attempt. Whose "side" was she on?? Whose "side" was he on??

Chaotic for sure, and offering little chance of a perfect decision.

I have a few questions. At ~10 feet or so, why are 4 shots needed for a stop maneuver? I mean, besides "just to be sure."

Left unsaid is that we seem to be OK with trading a near-certain death probability with the alternative possibility of a stabbing which may or may not result in another death.

Folks like to play what-if. OK, I can do that. What if the best outcome was for the "truly innocent" (girl in pink about to probably get stabbed, right?) was to suffer a knife wound, possibly fatal, and that our victim here suffered I don't know, one, maybe 2 shots at most, possibly fatal?

Where's the tradeoff? Where's the best opportunity to discover the truth of the situation later? Maybe with less people dead?
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#16
The brief video I saw did not indict the officer. From my point of view, someone was about to stab another person and the police used sanctioned deadly force. Had the knife been coming at myself or a family member, I'd hope the officer did the same. That said, it of course sucks and it's early.
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#17
I agree, it looked like a good shoot although maybe two shots would have obviated the attack yet allowed her to survive but I have no real problem with how it went down.
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#18
Edit
Post withdrawn after reviewing video of subject incident. This post was informative, but not relavent to a discussion of this incident.
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#19
Folks like to play what-if. OK, I can do that. What if the best outcome was for the "truly innocent" (girl in pink about to probably get stabbed, right?) was to suffer a knife wound, possibly fatal, and that our victim here suffered I don't know, one, maybe 2 shots at most, possibly fatal?


Please explain how that could be 'the best possible outcome'.

Without stating the results of the injuries, the proposed 'outcome' is meaningless.

Both live- ok.

Both die- not ok.

Stabbing victim lives, shot suspect dies- ok.

Stabbing victim dies, shooting suspect lives, not ok


So how does a cop, in the span of time shown in the video, respond to get the first outcome - nobody dies?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpnibt9RQ2U

Adults present prior to police arrival failed to intervene in any manner that might have prevented this.

And I hope the brave SOB that kicked one of the female victims while she was on the ground, then started shouting that the suspect 'was just a kid' gets arrested for assault.

Maybe he's her father, uncle, whatever.

But I'd posit he's part of this whole situation, and could have prevented it.

A thorough investigation appears to be underway.

It is a tragedy, but it could have been a far worse one.

The media linking this to other shootings, for ratings sensationalism, doesn't help at all.

One reporter asks what deescalation tactics the officer used...

Wow, just wow.
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#20
RAMd®d, are the ‘beanbag’ projectiles still in use? Do you know what was the general opinion among law enforcement was of them? Also, if you know, is there any ‘less lethal’ force option(s) available or on the horizon that on the street law enforcement officers would like to have available that they don’t have now? Thanks.
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