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[quote RgrF]You realize it's Shakeman you're attempting to engage in debate, do you not? He doesn't respond or debate. He just posts.
The idea, not the person.
This addresses not just one comment, but the issue in general: people seem to be conflicted. They don't want to support negligent child molesting cult groups, that would be too creepy, but they're even less comfortable supporting the government's questionable authority to intervene.
The logic seems to be tied to scale. Distrusting the state's unwelcome involvement with that many children. It seems most would agree it's okay to intervene in a case involving three or four people; one family. If that's the case, then the same sense of justice should apply regardless of scale, and it's equally within the state's authority to intervene even if it involves hundreds.
Religion and civil rights arguments are no more of a shield for a large cult group that makes headlines than for a small non-cult group that doesn't make headlines. Abuse is abuse either way. Would the same charges of injustice be leveled at overzealous Texas state authorities if the cult family were only five people? I'm suggesting no one would care, or they'd support the authorities. A car full of kids, it's okay. A busload of kids? No way, then it's not okay, it's a 'violation' of the parent's civil rights.
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[quote guitarist]
The logic seems to be tied to scale. Distrusting the state's unwelcome involvement with that many children. It seems most would agree it's okay to intervene in a case involving three or four people; one family. If that's the case, then the same sense of justice should apply regardless of scale, and it's equally within the state's authority to intervene even if it involves hundreds.
Religion and civil rights arguments are no more of a shield for a large cult group that makes headlines than for a small non-cult group that doesn't make headlines. Abuse is abuse either way. Would the same charges of injustice be leveled at overzealous Texas state authorities if the cult family were only five people? I'm suggesting no one would care, or they'd support the authorities. A car full of kids, it's okay. A busload of kids? No way, then it's not okay, it's a 'violation' of the parent's civil rights.
Where are you getting this? It's got nothing to do with my objections.
These kids are going to end up abused in foster homes.
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"Where are you getting this? It's got nothing to do with my objections.
"These kids are going to end up abused in foster homes."
Then you'd have the same objections if it was one family, only two kids. You'd still object, and maintain that the family shouldn't be broken up, they should be left alone by state authorities because there's a risk that they might be abused in a foster home. As opposed to the certainty of criminal abuse in their current living situation.
It's only an issue because it's a whole bunch of kids going to a whole bunch of foster homes.
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I am having a hard time seeing what your summary has to do with my personal objection to the way this is being handled. Not much into the "debate for debate's sake" thing at the moment-- bait someone else.
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I don't understand how you can be against the action that is being taken unless you're ignorant of the beliefs and actions of the people involved.
i suspect that the dna tests will go a long way toward proving the terrible things that have been going on.
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If there is there rape, arrest the rapists.
Simple.
The ammount of self serving propaganda and self justyfying press releases being issued by the state should eaise questions by anybody able to think for themselves.
Right now the only child abuse is perpetrated by the state and its organs.
We just had several busloads of kids under 5, some babies and toddlers, dumped on local foster kid mass homes.
They are appealing for clothing, supplies, special food etc.
There was nothing to imply that the the tykes have been abused by their mothers or fathers.
Nothing.
Absolutely nothing.
The statutory rape issue had nothing to do with any kids under 12, yet all the kids were arrested, sorry, placed in "protective custody". Their mothers lied to, "you can stay with your kids, if you leave your home", then had their kids yanked from them, once outside the camp.
The kids have never been on buses before, they got sick to the point they had to pull over so the kids could puke their guts out, several times.
No wonder they were taught to fear strangers, it is the state thats has been abusing them, "for their own protection"....
This is no different than the witchhunts the original Mormons were experiencing in Missouri, by other cults like the Baptists, Presbyterians and Methodists.
Oh wait, it is the same Baptists running this little operations here, as well...
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[quote mattkime]I don't understand how you can be against the action that is being taken unless you're ignorant of the beliefs and actions of the people involved.
i suspect that the dna tests will go a long way toward proving the terrible things that have been going on.
I think it will slowly come out that appropriate legal procedures were not followed.
But to answer your question, I have no reason to believe any of what's being reported, and considering it's still commonplace to take young brides in much of the world now, and was in western culture until very, very recently, I am not finding it hard to view the practices of this culture as part of a legitimate belief system and set of customs.
I'm finding it hard to believe that normally compassionate and culturally respectful people are not able to see this side of it.
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[quote Black Landlord]
These kids are going to end up abused in foster homes.
WTF? Can you explain this comment?
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> considering it's still commonplace to take young brides in much of the world now, and was
> in western culture until very, very recently, I am not finding it hard to view the practices of
> this culture as part of a legitimate belief system and set of customs.
>
> I'm finding it hard to believe that normally compassionate and culturally respectful people
> are not able to see this side of it.
I suspect that in Western cultures, generally, children become emotionally mature somewhat later in life than in, for example, wandering Bedouin tribes.
Thus, in the case where a Bedouin man in his twenties marries his 15-year old cousin, it is not necessarily child abuse.
Then again, perhaps I'm wrong. There's such a thing as being too open-minded. I suppose it could be rape and child abuse in the case of the Bedouins, too. 'Good thing we have laws against that sort of thing. Too bad they don't have those laws. Good thing their rules don't apply here.
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[quote Pops][quote Black Landlord]
These kids are going to end up abused in foster homes.
WTF? Can you explain this comment?
I have heard many many many tales of abuse in foster care.
How is this a "WTF"? Can you explain "WTF?"
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