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Grace62 wrote:
Germans invented the hybrid engine over a century ago, did they not?
Yeah, Chinese invented rockets too. What is your point? My points that you ignored were once again,
- The country was brought to her knees with $4 a gallon gas. One tank of gas would cost $100. People's gas bills were higher than their car payments. Malls and restaurants were emptied of customers. How can you advocate $12 a gallon gas?
-Europeans have been paying 3 times as much as us yet in 30 years nothing came out of Europe. They simply did with smaller cars. Noting new. No innovation to speak of. Yet, Japanese were the ones who finally came through when gas prices were $2.50. Your theory doesn't hold up.
- The subsidies you outlined are probably true for most industries. They are indirect, remote and tangential. How much should a bag of potato chips cos based on your logic? You didn't say.
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Dakota wrote:
[quote=Grace62]
Germans invented the hybrid engine over a century ago, did they not?
Yeah, Chinese invented rockets too. What is your point? My points that you ignored were once again,
- The country was brought to her knees with $4 a gallon gas. One tank of gas would cost $100. People's gas bills were higher than their car payments. Malls and restaurants were emptied of customers. How can you advocate $12 a gallon gas?
-Europeans have been paying 3 times as much as us yet in 30 years nothing came out of Europe. They simply did with smaller cars. Noting new. No innovation to speak of. Yet, Japanese were the ones who finally came through when gas prices were $2.50. Your theory doesn't hold up.
- The subsidies you outlined are probably true for most industries. They are indirect, remote and tangential. How much should a bag of potato chips cos based on your logic? You didn't say.
It's ok, we know you don't comprehend the issues being discussed here.
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Malls and restaurants were emptied of customers.
I don't remember that. I remember comments from the economists how DESPITE the high energy prices, inflation remained remarkably tame and the economy perked along. The collapse in 2008 was from real estate and related banking practices, all thanks to OBAMA and his SOCIALIST agenda reaching BACKWARD IN TI...oh, wait, wrong thread.
I will say the longer-distance discretionary travel took a hit when it reached $4. Anecdotally, I took my family to yellowstone that summer (2008), and traffic was quite reasonable and campsites easy to find (but there were certainly plenty of people). I hear that this year they had record attendance.
From a consumer point of view, $5+ a gallon is painful, but there's always downsizing from that big ass SUV or scaling back vacation distances.
But I do have concern for small businesses who depend on heavier vehicles. There's not many options for fuel efficiency in box trucks. If they can't pass it along in their market, they'll have to eat it until the economy adjusts to the new energy price, or give up. There will be some pain.
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I'd say that the US vehicle fleet could cut fuel use by 1/3 or more with no pain whatsoever. Heck, just switching over to manual transmissions for a lot of vehicles would get you a 5 to 10% savings right there. There are just too many vehicles driving around with unnecessarily large and inefficient engines, and unnecessarily heavy vehicle weights in the US. Look how many Suburbans and giant pickups are being driven around these days by people who never even carry any cargo. Those types of vehicles were never even considered for regular household use here 20 years ago; the only reason they became so common was marketing by the automakers so as to exploit the commercial vehicle loophole in the original CAFE.
The rest of the world gets along quite well with more economical vehicles, including delivery trucks. European vehicles use many innovative technologies that reduce fuel use that have never been marketed here because virtually nobody here cares about gas mileage. It would be simple to simply port those technologies to the american market.
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The President in power when gasoline hits $12/gal will be either a second termer or someone not wanting to run again. It's a political problem (all the subsidies) and will take a political solution to equalize the market.
That might happen right after we drop tobacco and corn subsidies.
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I agree davester, I've never seen the need for more than a 4 cylinder for personal use. Certainly I understand the need for larger engines in commercial use, but I think families simply need to adjust. Far too much energy is wasted.
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August West wrote:
I agree davester, I've never seen the need for more than a 4 cylinder for personal use. Certainly I understand the need for larger engines in commercial use, but I think families simply need to adjust. Far too much energy is wasted.
If you are demanding that I step away from my V8, I will demand that you drive a scooter.4 cylinder is way more than you need. Who gave only you the right to tell me what I need or don't need. That to-each-according-to-his-needs line rears its ugly head again. And then they deny they are Leninist.
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Dakota hasn't acquired a V-10? I'm aghast.
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Dakota wrote:
If you are demanding that I step away from my V8,
No one is demanding that you step away. Just pay for the true cost of gas yourself and stop expecting us to help you with our tax dollars.
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Dakota wrote:
I don't know what these billions of subsidies are. That report doesn't help. Give me specifics. I understand ethanol subsidies, milk subsidies , farm price support etc. The oil subsidies you are talking about are 5 steps removed from the source. By that logic potato chips are subsidized because people eat them, get a heart attack, check in emergency room and somewhere along the line the government picks up the tab. So a bag of potato chips should cost $10.
Oh, one more thing. When we used to pay $1 for gas, Europeans were paying $5, and did that for 30 years. Nothing came out of Europe. Nothing. All they did was to retrench and do with less. We had to wait for 30 years for Japanese to think of hybrids. What proves your theory wrong is that we got the hybrids with $2.50 a gallon gas.
I amazed at how little you know about cars and engines. Thought that was your thing.
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