Senior with dementia and aphasia trades $14 worth of products for broken arm

[rjmacs]

Lemon Drop wrote:

We are on earth to protect one another.

You should have a talk with the Walton family about this. I don't think they've gotten the memo.

[lost in space]

The officers did "what they were trained to do" and "followed guidelines", both commonly heard justifications for using excessive force. The training and guidelines aren't always right.

I was knocked around by a cop years ago. A family friend who was a lawyer--a very left-leaning one--suggested I forget about pursuing any actions against the cop because it would go nowhere.

[Spock]

We need to replace “Warrior” cops with Guardian cops.

[CJsNvrUrly]

I'd think long and hard before calling the cops in any situation these days for fear of things going wrong. I'd hate to have been the person to have called the cops on George Floyd, for example.

[Speedy]

CJsNvrUrly wrote:
I'd think long and hard before calling the cops in any situation these days for fear of things going wrong. I'd hate to have been the person to have called the cops on George Floyd, for example.

The clerk who did call the cops on Floyd agrees with you.

[DeusxMac]

When there's a fire we call the Fire Department, and they're there as soon as possible.

When there's an armed robbery we call the Police Department and they're there as soon as possible.

When there's a mentally ill person walking down the middle of the street naked, we call the Mental Health Department and they're... they're...




They're either nonexistent, or incapable of responding in any appropriately timely way.

[C(-)ris]

Lemon Drop wrote:
[quote=C(-)ris]
[quote=Lemon Drop]
Where are her caregivers???

I see they've filed a federal lawsuit, maybe use some to provide appropriate care?

And of course fire the officers and send them to jail for aggravated assault.

Police do what they are trained to do. Restrain and detain criminals. They aren't mental health providers or community advocates/social workers nor should they be. Two completely exclusive skillsets.

Why aren't you advocating for suing here caregivers for being negligent?
You're saying the police actions were appropriate here? No of course they were not.

One officer is suspended and 2 others are on leave, pending an investigation of potential criminal conduct.

Nobody is trained to do what these officers did. The least you can say is they used very poor judgement.
No, I don't agree that the actions were appropriate for the situation, but I do think that it should have been expected if the police were called. Poor judgement? Yes, but for all we know the last shoplifter that officer tried to apprehend stabbed or shot at them and yes, little old ladies have been known to carry.

You cannot expect people to be shot at, punched, stabbed, and put their life on the line etc. as part of their job and simultaneously treat everyone they encounter with kid gloves. The human brain does not operate that way. You can't just flip a switch in your head and go from police officer ready to make an arrest to mental health professional.

I don't think 6 months or even a year of training in Police Academy can rewire the human brain to work that way.

DeusxMac wrote:
When there's a fire we call the Fire Department, and they're there as soon as possible.

When there's an armed robbery we call the Police Department and they're there as soon as possible.

When there's a mentally ill person walking down the middle of the street naked, we call the Mental Health Department and they're... they're...




They're either nonexistent, or incapable of responding in any appropriately timely way.

The Fire department puts out the fire and they are done. Everyone is happy the fire is out.

The police department arrests the robber and they are done. Everyone is happy the criminal is off the street.

The Mental Health Department.... If it was as simple as creating a department to take an action and resolve a persons mental health it would already be done.

Mental Health support isn't a one visit and you are good to go thing. It is years or even a lifetime of support and even then, you might not make any progress.

[Lemon Drop]

C(-)ris wrote:
[quote=Lemon Drop]
[quote=C(-)ris]
[quote=Lemon Drop]
Where are her caregivers???

I see they've filed a federal lawsuit, maybe use some to provide appropriate care?

And of course fire the officers and send them to jail for aggravated assault.

Police do what they are trained to do. Restrain and detain criminals. They aren't mental health providers or community advocates/social workers nor should they be. Two completely exclusive skillsets.

Why aren't you advocating for suing here caregivers for being negligent?
You're saying the police actions were appropriate here? No of course they were not.

One officer is suspended and 2 others are on leave, pending an investigation of potential criminal conduct.

Nobody is trained to do what these officers did. The least you can say is they used very poor judgement.
No, I don't agree that the actions were appropriate for the situation, but I do think that it should have been expected if the police were called. Poor judgement? Yes, but for all we know the last shoplifter that officer tried to apprehend stabbed or shot at them and yes, little old ladies have been known to carry.

You cannot expect people to be shot at, punched, stabbed, and put their life on the line etc. as part of their job and simultaneously treat everyone they encounter with kid gloves. The human brain does not operate that way. You can't just flip a switch in your head and go from police officer ready to make an arrest to mental health professional.

I don't think 6 months or even a year of training in Police Academy can rewire the human brain to work that way.
And yet...most officers stop people safely all day long and never injure or kill anyone. Are they special? No.

It's past time to stop excusing police use of excessive force.

[C(-)ris]

Lemon Drop wrote:
[quote=C(-)ris]
[quote=Lemon Drop]
[quote=C(-)ris]
[quote=Lemon Drop]
Where are her caregivers???

I see they've filed a federal lawsuit, maybe use some to provide appropriate care?

And of course fire the officers and send them to jail for aggravated assault.

Police do what they are trained to do. Restrain and detain criminals. They aren't mental health providers or community advocates/social workers nor should they be. Two completely exclusive skillsets.

Why aren't you advocating for suing here caregivers for being negligent?
You're saying the police actions were appropriate here? No of course they were not.

One officer is suspended and 2 others are on leave, pending an investigation of potential criminal conduct.

Nobody is trained to do what these officers did. The least you can say is they used very poor judgement.
No, I don't agree that the actions were appropriate for the situation, but I do think that it should have been expected if the police were called. Poor judgement? Yes, but for all we know the last shoplifter that officer tried to apprehend stabbed or shot at them and yes, little old ladies have been known to carry.

You cannot expect people to be shot at, punched, stabbed, and put their life on the line etc. as part of their job and simultaneously treat everyone they encounter with kid gloves. The human brain does not operate that way. You can't just flip a switch in your head and go from police officer ready to make an arrest to mental health professional.

I don't think 6 months or even a year of training in Police Academy can rewire the human brain to work that way.
And yet...most officers stop people safely all day long and never injure or kill anyone. Are they special? No.

It's past time to stop excusing police use of excessive force.
It is likely multiple factors at play. I would say that given certain circumstances even the most caring officer could have a laps in judgement. Do you have some sort of test to determine if someone is a "good person" to you? As soon as they do something you don't like they are evil and always have been?

[rjmacs]

C(-)ris wrote:
[quote=Lemon Drop]
[quote=C(-)ris]
[quote=Lemon Drop]
Where are her caregivers???

I see they've filed a federal lawsuit, maybe use some to provide appropriate care?

And of course fire the officers and send them to jail for aggravated assault.

Police do what they are trained to do. Restrain and detain criminals. They aren't mental health providers or community advocates/social workers nor should they be. Two completely exclusive skillsets.

Why aren't you advocating for suing here caregivers for being negligent?
You're saying the police actions were appropriate here? No of course they were not.

One officer is suspended and 2 others are on leave, pending an investigation of potential criminal conduct.

Nobody is trained to do what these officers did. The least you can say is they used very poor judgement.
No, I don't agree that the actions were appropriate for the situation, but I do think that it should have been expected if the police were called. Poor judgement? Yes, but for all we know the last shoplifter that officer tried to apprehend stabbed or shot at them and yes, little old ladies have been known to carry.
We cannot allow police officers to react as though every situation is likely to be the worst possible situation. The goal is to preserve public safety, not to protect officers at all and every cost.

C(-)ris wrote:
You cannot expect people to be shot at, punched, stabbed, and put their life on the line etc. as part of their job and simultaneously treat everyone they encounter with kid gloves. The human brain does not operate that way. You can't just flip a switch in your head and go from police officer ready to make an arrest to mental health professional.

I don't think 6 months or even a year of training in Police Academy can rewire the human brain to work that way.

You make a compelling argument for much better training of police officers. Until that exists, we will continue to point out the hazards of empowering people with badges and guns to make deadly and damaging mistakes.

C(-)ris wrote:
[quote=DeusxMac]
When there's a fire we call the Fire Department, and they're there as soon as possible.

When there's an armed robbery we call the Police Department and they're there as soon as possible.

When there's a mentally ill person walking down the middle of the street naked, we call the Mental Health Department and they're... they're...

They're either nonexistent, or incapable of responding in any appropriately timely way.

The Fire department puts out the fire and they are done. Everyone is happy the fire is out.

The police department arrests the robber and they are done. Everyone is happy the criminal is off the street.

The Mental Health Department.... If it was as simple as creating a department to take an action and resolve a persons mental health it would already be done.

Mental Health support isn't a one visit and you are good to go thing. It is years or even a lifetime of support and even then, you might not make any progress.
You make a compelling argument for universal healthcare. Until that exists, we will continue to point out that sending armed officers to handle mentally ill people who broadly pose no real danger to others is incredibly dangerous, and outside the scope of what people charged with preserving public safety should be asked to do.

C(-)ris wrote:
[quote=Lemon Drop]
And yet...most officers stop people safely all day long and never injure or kill anyone. Are they special? No.

It's past time to stop excusing police use of excessive force.

It is likely multiple factors at play. I would say that given certain circumstances even the most caring officer could have a laps in judgement. Do you have some sort of test to determine if someone is a "good person" to you? As soon as they do something you don't like they are evil and always have been?
You make a compelling argument for much better screening of potential police officers. Indeed, such screening tools to determine whether someone is a 'good person [to be a police officer]' do exist. We need to require those we empower with badges and guns to preserve public safety to meet a higher standard than the average person. We can do it, and we ought to.