07-09-2023, 03:31 AM
Meantime Toyota seems to be working on hydrogen tech.
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Mercedes adopts Tesla charging standard, TSLA @ $283...
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07-09-2023, 03:36 AM
Wags wrote: Since an economically viable source of green hydrogen does not exist and will not exist in the foreseeable future, this is a pretty ridiculous quest. Hydrogen for the foreseeable future must be produced from petroleum products. Not only that, the hydrogen production/fuel cell vehicle pathway is very inefficient compared to the battery/electric vehicle pathway so is uncompetitive.
07-09-2023, 03:46 AM
davester wrote: Since an economically viable source of green hydrogen does not exist and will not exist in the foreseeable future, this is a pretty ridiculous quest. Hydrogen for the foreseeable future must be produced from petroleum products. Not only that, the hydrogen production/fuel cell vehicle pathway is very inefficient compared to the battery/electric vehicle pathway so is uncompetitive. Hydrogen tech has been used by Toyota as a distraction from an all-EV future.
07-09-2023, 04:19 AM
davester wrote: Since an economically viable source of green hydrogen does not exist and will not exist in the foreseeable future, this is a pretty ridiculous quest. Hydrogen for the foreseeable future must be produced from petroleum products. Not only that, the hydrogen production/fuel cell vehicle pathway is very inefficient compared to the battery/electric vehicle pathway so is uncompetitive. Toyota has new leadership. They are at least making the right noises and overt moves. They are churning out EVs and say they've got new modeling, motor, and battery tech to dominate the sector. They say they have two generations of breakthrough-batteries lined up, providing a 20% boost in capacity and significant reduction in charge-time with reduced weight and cost by 2025, and similar leaps on top of that with 600+ mile range by 2027 or 2028. They're also moving EV manufacturing to the US to take advantage of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
07-09-2023, 05:29 AM
sekker wrote: NACS is on its way to being a formal standard. What I find perplexing is the view that Tesla was keeping this proprietary. Not true. Tesla made all patents available Jan 31, 2019, and had offered to do well before then, https://medium.datadriveninvestor.com/te...861e006279 Most people do not understand that Musk would like to NOT make superchargers at all. But the industry did NOT want to make EVs, so they built out their network. They were also the first to need high-speed power recharging, so they made a BETTER connector. It is only in the last couple weeks that SAE decided to start the formal process of making NACS a standard. As for proprietary, Musk tweeting "that all Tesla patents are open for public and Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who uses their technology in good faith" does not constitute making their plug into an open standard. It says nothing towards making them free to use, and might not be enough to hold up in court. For example. what exactly does "good faith" mean? It also did not provide the specs for the connector either, those may not have been included in what was in the patents Tesla had filed. Altogether these would not lead other manufacturers to adopt the tech. As for "BETTER", in what way is it better than besides being widely in existence mostly for Tesla use at this point? Technically there have been connectors designed and deployed to handle greater charge rates, just not widely in the passenger car field.
07-09-2023, 05:44 AM
JoeH wrote: https://www.forbes.com/sites/stacynoblet...connector/ Adding NACS to vehicles means more EVs are compatible with Tesla’s Supercharger network. It fits an existing charging network with a good reputation in the United States and the connector is smaller than CCS so some people have an easier time with it. That's the whole story. ...There's already a standard thru most of Europe and they're a decade or more ahead of us in charging infrastructure (on the CCS standard that US car-makers have mostly been using) so there's no compelling reason to make any change to vehicles there. And there's at least one potential hangup... NACS has not yet been vetted by a standards development organization like SAE or ISO.
07-09-2023, 05:58 PM
Tiangou wrote: Since an economically viable source of green hydrogen does not exist and will not exist in the foreseeable future, this is a pretty ridiculous quest. Hydrogen for the foreseeable future must be produced from petroleum products. Not only that, the hydrogen production/fuel cell vehicle pathway is very inefficient compared to the battery/electric vehicle pathway so is uncompetitive. Toyota has new leadership. They are at least making the right noises and overt moves. They are churning out EVs and say they've got new modeling, motor, and battery tech to dominate the sector. They say they have two generations of breakthrough-batteries lined up, providing a 20% boost in capacity and significant reduction in charge-time with reduced weight and cost by 2025, and similar leaps on top of that with 600+ mile range by 2027 or 2028. They're also moving EV manufacturing to the US to take advantage of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. Toyota is in big trouble. They're hopelessly behind. All they're doing is regurgitating old news.
07-09-2023, 07:24 PM
Carnos Jax wrote: Since an economically viable source of green hydrogen does not exist and will not exist in the foreseeable future, this is a pretty ridiculous quest. Hydrogen for the foreseeable future must be produced from petroleum products. Not only that, the hydrogen production/fuel cell vehicle pathway is very inefficient compared to the battery/electric vehicle pathway so is uncompetitive. Toyota has new leadership. They are at least making the right noises and overt moves. They are churning out EVs and say they've got new modeling, motor, and battery tech to dominate the sector. They say they have two generations of breakthrough-batteries lined up, providing a 20% boost in capacity and significant reduction in charge-time with reduced weight and cost by 2025, and similar leaps on top of that with 600+ mile range by 2027 or 2028. They're also moving EV manufacturing to the US to take advantage of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. Toyota is in big trouble. They're hopelessly behind. All they're doing is regurgitating old news. Took the bZ4X for a test drive. Odd design choices - no frunk or glove box and weird fabric panels on the dash, but the look and driving "feel" was just about exactly the same as the RAV4 hybrid. Tuned perfectly for a comfortable ride with good pickup on the highway. The RAV4 is notoriously "boring," and gets poor reviews because it's not "exciting"... but it is also notoriously roomy, comfortable, and reliable. And is one of the best selling vehicles in the world. Don't underestimate Toyota.
07-09-2023, 08:09 PM
Tiangou wrote: Since an economically viable source of green hydrogen does not exist and will not exist in the foreseeable future, this is a pretty ridiculous quest. Hydrogen for the foreseeable future must be produced from petroleum products. Not only that, the hydrogen production/fuel cell vehicle pathway is very inefficient compared to the battery/electric vehicle pathway so is uncompetitive. Toyota has new leadership. They are at least making the right noises and overt moves. They are churning out EVs and say they've got new modeling, motor, and battery tech to dominate the sector. They say they have two generations of breakthrough-batteries lined up, providing a 20% boost in capacity and significant reduction in charge-time with reduced weight and cost by 2025, and similar leaps on top of that with 600+ mile range by 2027 or 2028. They're also moving EV manufacturing to the US to take advantage of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. Toyota is in big trouble. They're hopelessly behind. All they're doing is regurgitating old news. Took the bZ4X for a test drive. Odd design choices - no frunk or glove box and weird fabric panels on the dash, but the look and driving "feel" was just about exactly the same as the RAV4 hybrid. Tuned perfectly for a comfortable ride with good pickup on the highway. The RAV4 is notoriously "boring," and gets poor reviews because it's not "exciting"... but it is also notoriously roomy, comfortable, and reliable. And is one of the best selling vehicles in the world. Don't underestimate Toyota. I normally wouldn't, as they're what I prefer in ICE vehicles. I think your review is spot on, though I don't think they're boring. However, they've hung themselves through the actions of the old guard at Toyota. I don't know what it is about asian cultures, but they sometimes have this fatal belief in obeying the decisions of senior management. And in Toyotas case that's a continued commitment to fossil fuels. Though I am given some hope (and surprised) by their decision to go with a new, young, next generation CEO (as if it's a nod that the old ones made a mistake). Regardless though, Toyota's gonna have to play catch up. They've been making the same talk about advancements for several years now, with no visible progress or specifics. I don't believe them. They're going to need borrow some tech from Tesla (which the latter will gladly give them), but them may be too proud to do so. Otherwise they're too far behind (Tesla has had a 10 year head start and this isn't the sort of thing you can catch up to without putting in the time). |
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