Hooray - Help for Homeowners is on the way!

[Gutenberg]

The number of foreclosures going on is turning everyone's financial arrangements south. The vacants are an incredible drag on neighborhoods.

None of the people who are pleading for the government to save them from foreclosure will come out of this with a decent credit record and full equity in their properties. They are pretty much ruined. Isn't that a good enough pound of flesh for the righties? I guess not! The debtors have to be turned out on the street too, and their neighbors have to suffer the aggravation of the vacant properties. I don't understand that point of view at all.

[JoeH]

beerman wrote:
Gutenberg, could you clarify your comments for me? I suspect others understood what you were saying, but I did not. thank you.

As an interesting side note I just got back from a board meeting where a lawyer was very frustrated that a portion of the bailout money will be going to speculators or to people who made incredibly bad financial decisions. He made almost the same comment that kj made, that we are essentially subsidizing someone's lifestyle. I would have to admit I agree but I don't know how any criteria could be setup to exclude those people and still accomplish the goal of keeping people in their houses that otherwise would lose them. Perhaps exclude mortgages that are not on primary residences would be a start?

It's in the nature of doing something to help others out, there will always be persons who take advantage. About all that can be done is to do your best to make the rules so as many are helped who did not get themselves intentionally into trouble and exclude as many as you can who did. Being that you are dealing with humans, imperfect in every way, there are going to be less than perfect results and processes. Or you can do nothing while trying to get the "perfect" set of rules and see things get much, much worse.

One thing I would like to see in the provisions for aid, is that if any mortgage does get a mark down in value is a recovery rule. That if the owner does eventually sell for more than the marked down value, that profit would go to pay back into the program and reimburse the support. That woould be similar to what was done during the '80's for farmers when the agriculture credit market dried up.

[(vikm)]

I've not commented on the topic yet but all I'll say is that there is a part of me that feels for anyone that is in jeopardy of losing there home. There is also a part of me that is honestly pretty bitter about the whole thing. I was in a position about 3 years ago to buy a home here in CA. The lender said something like, "I can get you approved, blah, blah, blah". We coulda joined the masses that couldn't really afford it and dealt with it later. It seemed highly irresponsible even though we probably could have pulled it off.

So, like I said, I'm torn. I feel for them and wish them the best but I'm a bit envious that they are being helped out and I'm also a little pissed that they are also part of what has put us in this position economically. I hate how our society is constantly in "do something I know is wrong and ask for forgiveness later" mode. It's rampant but it's even worse if nothing is done to "fix" the problems.

[OWC Jamie]

It's about time.
Even an imperfect plan is better than nothing.
If a solution was simple the tide of failures would have been stopped 6 months ago.


There's no such thing as a risk free mortgage.
Or a risk free life.

In the very center of all these mortgagees and mortgagors iis a core of people who would not be in the situation they are in now if the economy hadn't tanked as much as it had and the market balloon hadn't blown up as big as it had and then popped as much as it popped. There will be those outside the core that will not get helped and those outside that core that probably don't deserve to get helped.
If one spends all day analysing the fringe the core just keeps growing.

Some sort of program is better than just tossing money up in the air and hoping not just the quick and agile make out.

[Mac1337]

Gutenberg wrote:

• Those people paid more than the houses were worth

• They did not pay more because they are jerks.

• They paid more because of the circumstances.

• The righties believe that everyone who paid too much for their houses should be hung out to dry.

• I believe the righties are wrong.

I hope this is clearer for you.

This is the flimsiest argument I have heard yet. How can you pay more for a house? It is not your money. What do you think appraisal is for? They bought it for the going price. The reason they are upside down is because the market has collapsed not because they paid more

and while we are at it....

How do you stop a foreclosure without giving people a free house or at half the price? What is President Obama suggesting?

[kj]

Gutenberg wrote:
The number of foreclosures going on is turning everyone's financial arrangements south. The vacants are an incredible drag on neighborhoods.

None of the people who are pleading for the government to save them from foreclosure will come out of this with a decent credit record and full equity in their properties. They are pretty much ruined. Isn't that a good enough pound of flesh for the righties? I guess not! The debtors have to be turned out on the street too, and their neighbors have to suffer the aggravation of the vacant properties. I don't understand that point of view at all.

The reason you don't understand that point of view at all, is because no one here has that point of view. Vikm is closest to my point of view, and I see no resemblance between that and the one you're talking about.

I know more people than I could name who have houses that are seriously bigger than the house Joe Albertson lived in (the founder of Albertson's grocery), who bought expensive cars, boats, 4 wheelers, etc, in addition. They are in big trouble right now. You mean to tell me that I'm a terrible person because I don't want to help them keep everything they have? Where we differ is that you think most of these people are victims, whereas I think most of them screwed up. I have good friends who bought a house in phoenix at the height of the bubble, and had to walk away (no way to sell). They're going to be fine because they were not "living large".

People killed the golden credit goose. Now they're after my future earnings. What happens when you and I don't have enough money to pay our bills? Who's going to pay the taxes to bail us out? Btw, why are vacant houses such an incredible drag on neighborhoods? There are several houses in our neighborhood that I wish were vacant.

[JoeH]

kj wrote:

Btw, why are vacant houses such an incredible drag on neighborhoods? There are several houses in our neighborhood that I wish were vacant.

Why, because unless there is a seller around to take care of the property, after a while the grass is not mown, the house itself not kept up, and sometimes even broken into and vandalized. A number have even been taken over to use for drug manufacture and sales in many areas. That definitely does nothing good for the property values of the neighboring owners. But as I noted in another post, sometimes a quick foreclosure sale is even worse, the person who has the available money to buy may not have any desire to do well with the property or neighbors.

[kj]

JoeH wrote:
[quote=kj]

Btw, why are vacant houses such an incredible drag on neighborhoods? There are several houses in our neighborhood that I wish were vacant.

Why, because unless there is a seller around to take care of the property, after a while the grass is not mown, the house itself not kept up, and sometimes even broken into and vandalized. A number have even been taken over to use for drug manufacture and sales in many areas. That definitely does nothing good for the property values of the neighboring owners. But as I noted in another post, sometimes a quick foreclosure sale is even worse, the person who has the available money to buy may not have any desire to do well with the property or neighbors.
Seriously, that's not much different than our Californian-owned rentals around here. How about this: move my family into a nicer house with the same payments, and the defaulters can have mine? kj.

[deckeda]

What I think some of you don't get is that this mess has morphed way beyond the personal blame game. The whole notion of fairness, of paying one's dues (if not monthly bills), accounting for one's actions and responsibilities is not enough to fix the economy. Not now.

I'll be succinct. It's gonna take all of us helping out each other, even in cases where "they don't deserve it" in order to help ourselves. If ya can't see how it's all related and interdependent then your best bet is to keep your head in the sand and pray nobody comes up behind you and ...

[SDGuy]

deckeda wrote:
...I'll be succinct. It's gonna take all of us helping out each other, even in cases where "they don't deserve it" in order to help ourselves....

I absolutely agree!!






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