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Black Landlord wrote:
You are clearly still fuming about the god/constitution thread and somehow feel justified in lashing out at Lux and I whenever it suits you.
Lashing out at you? No one even said your name. I said "huh?" to davester regarding his comment to me, and you decided to jump right in as usual and sling shit in my general direction.
And then you cry foul when the shoe is on the other foot.
It gets tiresome, and I reserve the right to poke back now and then.
Poke back now and then? What you do is more like attack at every possible opportunity, and I will defend myself when attacked. Do I reply to nearly every one of your comments with some slander or personal attack like you do to me? No.
If I say something you don't agree with regarding a thread topic then I'd love to have a rational discussion about it. Feel free to tell me where you disagree with me and offer your viewpoints. The only thing you ever seem to bring to the table though is anger, hate and alleged racism at every turn. Did I wrong you in a past life or are you just an asshole in general?
If it's so tiresome let it go, you're still dwelling on a thread from like 3 months ago. It must really burn you up inside, it's not good for your health to harbor that kind of anger. Take a deep breath and move on. If you can't move on and contribute to a discussion like a grown adult and all you have to offer is attacks on me I kindly ask that you leave me the fsck alone.
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Acer wrote:
[quote=AlphaDog]
[quote=vision63]
No one "believes in" or is "pro" abortion.
I agree. Those who think "pro choice" and "pro abortion" are synonymous are either being deliberately obtuse or are ill informed and should do a bit more reading on the subject.
Inform me about this aspect: Bill Clinton once said "Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare." We have the legal part covered, and the safe part, and, thanks to vouchers, we can even make them affordable, but what is being done to make them rare?
I just saw this post, and I need clarification. Maybe I'm the one now being obtuse, but I'm not getting your apparent association between what I said and what Bill Clinton said!
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OK, I'll be less obtuse.
If the "pro-choice" camp is not really "pro-abortion," then I presume you would agree that abortion is not the best possible outcome for a problem pregnancy in most cases. Is making abortion rare a goal of the "pro-choice" group? If so, what policies do they have to make them less common? Are these policies working?
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>>Is making abortion rare a goal of the "pro-choice" group? If so, what policies do they have to make them less common? Are these policies working?
education about birth control. works better than abstinence education.
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Acer wrote:
OK, I'll be less obtuse.
If the "pro-choice" camp is not really "pro-abortion," then I presume you would agree that abortion is not the best possible outcome for a problem pregnancy in most cases. Is making abortion rare a goal of the "pro-choice" group? If so, what policies do they have to make them less common? Are these policies working?
I'm not an activist of any persuasion, so I can't answer the question about policy. What I do know is that the rate of abortion, as of 2005, which is the most current year for which I could find numbers, is dropping. The article I read, however, did not examine causes, so I don't know if those numbers dropped because of "policy" or not. Nor do I happen to know if "policy" is even the right word to describe the efforts to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. Does education about birth control constitute "policy"? I suppose that could become a heated debate all by itself, especially among those who have strong beliefs about abstinence as opposed to birth control.
And, yes, I do agree that abortion is not the best possible outcome, but I also believe that I will never be able to walk in the shoes of another person, so I don't feel it's my right to judge them for the decisions they make. Plus, the sad truth is that in some cases it really might be the best possible outcome, if you take into consideration the safety and well being of the children after their birth. This becomes exceptionally complex if you consider all the possible aspects.
Furthermore, I don't believe that abortion should ever become an acceptable form of first line birth control. Unwanted pregnancies do happen, though, even to some who believed they were adequately protected. What I have been is a young woman of child bearing age, and I would never have wanted someone else to tell me what I could or could not do in the event I became pregnant with a child I had not planned on having.
The bottom line is that I simply do not believe in legislating what a woman can or cannot do if she finds herself pregnant. That does not, however, mean I am "pro abortion." I don't happen to consider the two to be the same.
If you want an eye opening experience, spend some time around two groups - one is teenage unwed mothers and the other is abused and neglected children. I don't mean just drop in for a visit; I mean spend enough time with them so that you can really get to know the range and the experiences of both the young women and the children, and that time has to be measured more in the range of years, not hours, days, or weeks.
I could actually go on about this subject, because I spent over five years working in a school with a program for teenage mothers. I spent another seven years working in the dependency program of the local juvenile court system. My current position is based on what I saw with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. Theories are great, but they don't always represent the real world.
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Mike Sellers wrote:
[quote=Acer]
Inform me about this aspect: Bill Clinton once said "Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare." We have the legal part covered, and the safe part, and, thanks to vouchers, we can even make them affordable, but what is being done to make them rare?
Maybe if more of the people who claim to oppose abortion would offer to adopt unwanted children. "Pro-life" shouldn't stop the minute a child emerges from the womb.
Do you know that they don't? Does "pro-life" stop after a child is born? I don't see it. kj.
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Acer wrote:
OK, I'll be less obtuse.
If the "pro-choice" camp is not really "pro-abortion," then I presume you would agree that abortion is not the best possible outcome for a problem pregnancy in most cases. Is making abortion rare a goal of the "pro-choice" group? If so, what policies do they have to make them less common? Are these policies working?
I find it hard to believe that you don't know the answer to this question, which is exactly what mattkime stated. It has been proven beyond any doubt that birth control education and easy availability of contraceptives (which both represent planned parenthood's primary mission) are more effective than anything in reducing unwanted pregnancies and therefore abortions. The pro-life crowd's stance that abstinence-only education (proven NOT to work) combined with withholding of education and availability of contraceptives is absurd. Gee, I wonder why teen pregnancies and STDs are epidemic in the bible belt?
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karsen wrote:
[quote=Black Landlord]
You are clearly still fuming about the god/constitution thread and somehow feel justified in lashing out at Lux and I whenever it suits you.
Lashing out at you? No one even said your name. I said "huh?" to davester regarding his comment to me, and you decided to jump right in as usual and sling shit in my general direction.
And then you cry foul when the shoe is on the other foot.
It gets tiresome, and I reserve the right to poke back now and then.
Poke back now and then? What you do is more like attack at every possible opportunity, and I will defend myself when attacked. Do I reply to nearly every one of your comments with some slander or personal attack like you do to me? No.
If I say something you don't agree with regarding a thread topic then I'd love to have a rational discussion about it. Feel free to tell me where you disagree with me and offer your viewpoints. The only thing you ever seem to bring to the table though is anger, hate and alleged racism at every turn. Did I wrong you in a past life or are you just an asshole in general?
If it's so tiresome let it go, you're still dwelling on a thread from like 3 months ago. It must really burn you up inside, it's not good for your health to harbor that kind of anger. Take a deep breath and move on. If you can't move on and contribute to a discussion like a grown adult and all you have to offer is attacks on me I kindly ask that you leave me the fsck alone.
A few threads down you posted a pic of dogs humping eachother and declared it was "BL and Lux." Completely out of the blue, unprovoked.
I thought it was kind of funny but I'm also disturbed by your pervasive dishonesty. If you want to believe that I'm consumed with anger or anything else because of you, go ahead. If you truly want me to "leave you alone" all you have to do is ask respectfully without couching it in a bunch of lies and insults.
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