Hooray - Help for Homeowners is on the way!

[JoeH]

Then again kj, she did not just say Section 8, but to quote "dealing with a Section 8 federal subsidy or public housing". There are all kinds of subsidized housing outside of Section 8, and those have much different "costs" to enter into renting than regular rentals. Often without requirements such as "first, last and security deposit". On top of that the rental rate is often based on ability to pay, not any kind of market rate. You using your experience in getting persons into that kind of housing and extending that to regular rentals, well, speaking of assumptions...

[Gutenberg]

kj, where did I say you are stupid? Can you show me?

Where did I say you were putting people in Section 8 housing, and why would you even consider that an insult if I did?

Your comparison was faulty. Period.

Cheers, dorkbait

[kj]

JoeH wrote:
Then again kj, she did not just say Section 8, but to quote "dealing with a Section 8 federal subsidy or public housing". There are all kinds of subsidized housing outside of Section 8, and those have much different "costs" to enter into renting than regular rentals. Often without requirements such as "first, last and security deposit". On top of that the rental rate is often based on ability to pay, not any kind of market rate. You using your experience in getting persons into that kind of housing and extending that to regular rentals, well, speaking of assumptions...

Dude. Let me put it another way. They are normal rentals, like anyone normal person would rent. The reason I brought it up is that these people often make less than 700/mo. If they can do it, anyone can. kj.

[kj]

>>Where did I say you were putting people in Section 8 housing, and why would you even consider that an insult if I did?

You couldn't have said it any more plainly. It's insulting that you assumed I didn't notice that I had filled out applications for section 8, and didn't know there is a difference between that and renting from a private party. Wtf? Is anyone that dumb? No, they aren't. kj.

[JoeH]

Do they have to come up personally with first, last and a security deposit? You still have not addressed that part. In my experience, many do not. And yes I have had direct dealings with this in connection with my mother who was on disability and SSI from around 1980 until she collected on my father's SS retirement account in the early '90's, and indirectly with others' situations.

[kj]

JoeH wrote:
Do they have to come up personally with first, last and a security deposit? You still have not addressed that part. In my experience, many do not. And yes I have had direct dealings with this in connection with my mother who was on disability and SSI from around 1980 until she collected on my father's SS retirement account in the early '90's, and indirectly with others' situations.

It depends on what kind of deals I can find (the incentives I mentioned). They're not getting any subsidy, whatsoever. People on SS do not _have_ to live in subsidized housing (it's garbage). They usually have to pay something up front, but nothing outrageous.

And surely, if it's worth helping them to stay in their current homes (the premise of this whole argument), they aren't in such bad shape that they can't afford a rental? If they can't afford a rental, they sure as heck can't afford 31% of their income for a house payment.

Now, lets see the other side of the coin. Show me where people are unable to afford rent after being foreclosed on. I'll show you instances where people have been able (if you want), so it shouldn't be too hard to find the opposite. kj.

[$tevie]

Where do you live, kj? Because where I live you would have to be in a HUD apt building to pay less than $700 a month. Or in the ghetto.


I think we drifted so far afield that we have lost the actual topic. We are also so deep into arguing minutiae without ever addressing why it is so awful to help people stay in their homes. And I don't want to hear about their fabulous life styles because this program isn't going to keep anyone in McMansions so forget that angle.

[kj]

Boise, ID. Actually, you remind me that people usually have to share the rent with another person, but we have decent places all over for around 600/mo. I realize this isn't the case everywhere, but we're comparing them to people who supposedly can continue paying a house payment here. I don't believe it's an insurmountable task for the vast majority of those foreclosed on. kj.

[kj]

I actually do think many of those who will get help, shouldn't be getting it. There are others who recognize the same circumstances surrounding a lot of foreclosures:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...160C69.DTL

Although, she doesn't think there's anything necessarily wrong with spending all the equity you have in your house.

You know, if this whole thing doesn't end up hurting a lot of people who've done everything right over the years, I guess I don't care that much. But I really think it's going to, and it makes me mad. I've said it several times, but I think the people in trouble spent all their money, spent all the money they could borrow, and are now finding ways to tap into those who refused to play the same games. I've seen this occur with friends and family, acquaintances from other states, in the newspaper, in magazine articles--every source of knowledge available to me. I care about them, but they haven't been living a reasonable existence, and we need to quit fooling ourselves into thinking it can continue. kj.

[Lux Interior]

kj wrote:
You know, if this whole thing doesn't end up hurting a lot of people who've done everything right over the years, I guess I don't care that much. But I really think it's going to, and it makes me mad. I've said it several times, but I think the people in trouble spent all their money, spent all the money they could borrow, and are now finding ways to tap into those who refused to play the same games. I've seen this occur with friends and family, acquaintances from other states, in the newspaper, in magazine articles--every source of knowledge available to me. I care about them, but they haven't been living a reasonable existence, and we need to quit fooling ourselves into thinking it can continue.

Okay. So, in your opinion, this aid will be going to people who made bad financial decisions. Not to people who got stuck through no fault of their own.

I think you have made that clear and it is not necessary to keep pounding the podium.